Hello, mods! This is a couple of days late, but I was a) having some difficulty articulating what I wanted to say, and b) didn't want to waste your time with feedback that was already given to you guys. I did debate for a while with myself whether to post this crit or not because I do think the TL;DR of it comes down to ideological differences and ultimately there's no real "answer" for that other than coming to terms with the fact that not all games can be for everyone. That's, imo, a perfectly legit thing and in this case I accepted that and had fun in MGRP regardless. And frankly, as I said to you guys in chat, you guys deserve medals for managing to juggle what was an intense NPC load with speedy communication and openness to change, so first and foremost, thank you for all your hard work and effort in creating and moderating this game. i know it must not have been easy and modding is, at times, really thankless work.
So the reason I did end up deciding to post this was because I hoped to offer some perspective, both as a player in your game and as a former mod (albeit not of murdergames). Whether you take my perspective into consideration for the future is, of course, entirely up to your discretion! Before I get into it though, I want to emphasize that this is not meant to be an attack or personal criticism, but as the bulk of what I'd like to point out as being (at least imo) a bit problematic pertains to Zange's role in the plot. I do worry that it might get taken as such. I can only reiterate that these are observations I've made, not attacks or accusations and I hope they won't be taken as such.
Both Shay and Luna both pointed out the issue of PC's feeling somewhat irrelevant to the overall plot of this game, and I would honestly have to agree that this is indeed how it felt. I understand fully that this was in no way your intention, and as you guys said, sometimes intention doesn't always carry through in execution.. and that happens sometimes! However, I do think the issue stems from a broader issue relating to the way this game had built into the very concept of it, some notable mod bias that skewed the playing field of the game in favor of the mod's PCs and NPCs. I realize that "mod bias" sounds kind of provocative and kinda inspires a kneejerk defensiveness, but as I stated I genuinely do not think it was intentional on your parts. I think the issue was that in trying to create a compelling fleshed out story to immerse your players, the unintentional result was that it left too little for your playable characters to do because so much of the mystery had already been worked out by pre-existing characters in the setting (ie. Zange and the NPCs).
In a way the amount of backstory you guys had I think was a bit of a double edged sword in execution, imo. As Shay said, the lore was pretty cool and I'm glad you guys got to share it with us to the detail that you did! But because you could simply ask an NPC for answers/clues on most things, it did occasionally feel rather like the PC was just there to be infodumped and do fetch questy things without really contributing to the game in a more meaningful way. I guess my advice here, and feel free to take it or leave it because it's one of those annoying "easier said than done" things, is to write a concept that doesn't have a cast of essential characters in it just yet. ....If that makes sense? Like have as much background/story that the story could go fascinating places, but try not to fill in too many roles before the players who will eventually provide essential characters have a shot at it.
Which then brings me to what I would like to say about Zange's role in the plot. I'll be honest here, I was shocked that a mod's PC was playing such a pivotal role in the plot of the game. I've been RPing on DW/LJ for a couple of years now on and off and I've never actually seen a game open to the public where the mod's PC was elevated to the point of (essentially) being singlehandedly responsible for the driving the core plot. In PSLs or friend-only invite games, I can certainly see that being fine, but MGRP was neither of those things. Perhas this goes back to what I was saying about ideological differences because as a mod I would not have made those choices, but it did make me uncomfortable as a player that Zange was given so many advantages over other players because the plot dictated it. Again, I understand this was not what you were aiming for, but because it was unintentional I feel this point needs to be said.
By creating a plot where the mod's PC by design has the distinct advantages over everyone else, that raises legitimate concerns about mod favoritism and mod bias for their own characters. At least for me, that put in this pretty awkward situation where I felt I could not voice my concern about how centralized around Zange and banking on unfamiliarity with Kannagi this game was because I could see that it was at least partially designed to be that way and nothing could actually be done about it even if I did bring up my concerns for that reason. It made things like the fact that manga 4th walling never happened until the very last week, Zange being the one to discover the ritual, the final trial revolving around trying to prove Zange was secretly a Good Person (and the fairly self aggrandizing implication that this was the most important question about Town A), the fact that in endgame people had their powers only weakly restored while Zange had no such handicap -- though I'm sure they all likely had their foundations in plot given how incredibly detailed and thorough you guys were! -- feel increasingly like the mod's PC was being put on a pedestal and given a lot of preferential treatment and that was a touch frustrating at times. Especially after the last trial, I was left wondering if this was still a murdergame based on MGRP or an AU Kannagi game. Again, please understand that I'm not saying this to accuse or point fingers, but rather to provide perspective on what these things can look like from the viewpoint of a player in your game.
One other more general concern I had related to what can be perceived as mod bias was the fact that the NPCs were all technically playable characters that could have been apped into the game. I understand why that choice was made and that it was tied to the nature of the plot you guys had created, but I do think there is valid criticism in pointing out that it effectively allowed the mods to play more PC's and bypass the regular app system by rebranding them as NPCs. Understand that I did enjoy threading with many of the NPCs in this game, but that doesn't really change the fact that it does feel like the mods were held to a different standard than the players. Again, this falls into the category of things I would find alright in a PSL/friend-only type of game, but less so in a game that's open to the public.
That all said, mods have every right to create the game they want to play because it is ultimately their sandbox? The fact that you guys decided to go for a concept that went against murdergame convention by making the mastermind the mod's PC is interesting in its own right and I can appreciate that you guys were going for different and unique plot twists. Ultimately, my conclusion here may be that "it wasn't my cup of tea, but it could very well be someone else's cup of tea" and that's a-okay! But even so I think the (let's face it) inevitable concerns about mod favoritism/bias for their own PC that accompanies this kind of concept needed more reflection, especially given the way those issues manifested during the course of MGRP as I briefly outlined above. I do know some of the expansion of mod characters' roles (both PC & NPC) was difficult to avoid simply because, as Luna pointed out, there was that issue with activity and you guys had to make a lot of on the fly adjustments, so I do sympathize there.
Overall, you guys were receptive to ideas and listened to your players concerns and showed a lot of flexibility in thinking and making swift adjustments as necessary and I can tell that you guys care a lot about your players. Those are all incredible assets, and as I said, despite some of our ideological differences, I did have a swell time here and that's definitely what counts most in the end. Even if I do have mixed feelings about how the game was executed, I have all the respect for the creativity and dedication each of you put into MGRP.
Again, thank you Len, Sam and Steve for all the time and energy you invested into MGRP. I wish you guys the best of luck with your future murdergame endeavors!
no subject
So the reason I did end up deciding to post this was because I hoped to offer some perspective, both as a player in your game and as a former mod (albeit not of murdergames). Whether you take my perspective into consideration for the future is, of course, entirely up to your discretion! Before I get into it though, I want to emphasize that this is not meant to be an attack or personal criticism, but as the bulk of what I'd like to point out as being (at least imo) a bit problematic pertains to Zange's role in the plot. I do worry that it might get taken as such. I can only reiterate that these are observations I've made, not attacks or accusations and I hope they won't be taken as such.
Both Shay and Luna both pointed out the issue of PC's feeling somewhat irrelevant to the overall plot of this game, and I would honestly have to agree that this is indeed how it felt. I understand fully that this was in no way your intention, and as you guys said, sometimes intention doesn't always carry through in execution.. and that happens sometimes! However, I do think the issue stems from a broader issue relating to the way this game had built into the very concept of it, some notable mod bias that skewed the playing field of the game in favor of the mod's PCs and NPCs. I realize that "mod bias" sounds kind of provocative and kinda inspires a kneejerk defensiveness, but as I stated I genuinely do not think it was intentional on your parts. I think the issue was that in trying to create a compelling fleshed out story to immerse your players, the unintentional result was that it left too little for your playable characters to do because so much of the mystery had already been worked out by pre-existing characters in the setting (ie. Zange and the NPCs).
In a way the amount of backstory you guys had I think was a bit of a double edged sword in execution, imo. As Shay said, the lore was pretty cool and I'm glad you guys got to share it with us to the detail that you did! But because you could simply ask an NPC for answers/clues on most things, it did occasionally feel rather like the PC was just there to be infodumped and do fetch questy things without really contributing to the game in a more meaningful way. I guess my advice here, and feel free to take it or leave it because it's one of those annoying "easier said than done" things, is to write a concept that doesn't have a cast of essential characters in it just yet. ....If that makes sense? Like have as much background/story that the story could go fascinating places, but try not to fill in too many roles before the players who will eventually provide essential characters have a shot at it.
Which then brings me to what I would like to say about Zange's role in the plot. I'll be honest here, I was shocked that a mod's PC was playing such a pivotal role in the plot of the game. I've been RPing on DW/LJ for a couple of years now on and off and I've never actually seen a game open to the public where the mod's PC was elevated to the point of (essentially) being singlehandedly responsible for the driving the core plot. In PSLs or friend-only invite games, I can certainly see that being fine, but MGRP was neither of those things. Perhas this goes back to what I was saying about ideological differences because as a mod I would not have made those choices, but it did make me uncomfortable as a player that Zange was given so many advantages over other players because the plot dictated it. Again, I understand this was not what you were aiming for, but because it was unintentional I feel this point needs to be said.
By creating a plot where the mod's PC by design has the distinct advantages over everyone else, that raises legitimate concerns about mod favoritism and mod bias for their own characters. At least for me, that put in this pretty awkward situation where I felt I could not voice my concern about how centralized around Zange and banking on unfamiliarity with Kannagi this game was because I could see that it was at least partially designed to be that way and nothing could actually be done about it even if I did bring up my concerns for that reason. It made things like the fact that manga 4th walling never happened until the very last week, Zange being the one to discover the ritual, the final trial revolving around trying to prove Zange was secretly a Good Person (and the fairly self aggrandizing implication that this was the most important question about Town A), the fact that in endgame people had their powers only weakly restored while Zange had no such handicap -- though I'm sure they all likely had their foundations in plot given how incredibly detailed and thorough you guys were! -- feel increasingly like the mod's PC was being put on a pedestal and given a lot of preferential treatment and that was a touch frustrating at times. Especially after the last trial, I was left wondering if this was still a murdergame based on MGRP or an AU Kannagi game. Again, please understand that I'm not saying this to accuse or point fingers, but rather to provide perspective on what these things can look like from the viewpoint of a player in your game.
One other more general concern I had related to what can be perceived as mod bias was the fact that the NPCs were all technically playable characters that could have been apped into the game. I understand why that choice was made and that it was tied to the nature of the plot you guys had created, but I do think there is valid criticism in pointing out that it effectively allowed the mods to play more PC's and bypass the regular app system by rebranding them as NPCs. Understand that I did enjoy threading with many of the NPCs in this game, but that doesn't really change the fact that it does feel like the mods were held to a different standard than the players. Again, this falls into the category of things I would find alright in a PSL/friend-only type of game, but less so in a game that's open to the public.
That all said, mods have every right to create the game they want to play because it is ultimately their sandbox? The fact that you guys decided to go for a concept that went against murdergame convention by making the mastermind the mod's PC is interesting in its own right and I can appreciate that you guys were going for different and unique plot twists. Ultimately, my conclusion here may be that "it wasn't my cup of tea, but it could very well be someone else's cup of tea" and that's a-okay! But even so I think the (let's face it) inevitable concerns about mod favoritism/bias for their own PC that accompanies this kind of concept needed more reflection, especially given the way those issues manifested during the course of MGRP as I briefly outlined above. I do know some of the expansion of mod characters' roles (both PC & NPC) was difficult to avoid simply because, as Luna pointed out, there was that issue with activity and you guys had to make a lot of on the fly adjustments, so I do sympathize there.
Overall, you guys were receptive to ideas and listened to your players concerns and showed a lot of flexibility in thinking and making swift adjustments as necessary and I can tell that you guys care a lot about your players. Those are all incredible assets, and as I said, despite some of our ideological differences, I did have a swell time here and that's definitely what counts most in the end. Even if I do have mixed feelings about how the game was executed, I have all the respect for the creativity and dedication each of you put into MGRP.
Again, thank you Len, Sam and Steve for all the time and energy you invested into MGRP. I wish you guys the best of luck with your future murdergame endeavors!